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TM1337FalconPunch
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PostSubject: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 3rd 2012, 7:28 pm

So, since I seem to have been invited here for my 3rd gen prowess, I figure I might as well gauge the interest or skill of everyone else here. Also, if anyone wants any pointers, ADVice (geddit?), or just want to talk about the gen, I'll be happy to help :p
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 7th 2012, 1:29 pm

Well, I haven't really played much competitive ADV since I pretty much started DPP on shoddy although I played the games since RBY so I still remember it decently enough. The only thing is I don't really know the meta well enough to build a team comfortably although I have watched people play those couple hundred turn games.

Maybe you can put up a pretty user friendly / good team up on a RMT for people to have something to use. Smile
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TM1337FalconPunch
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 7th 2012, 9:20 pm

The Adv meta is pretty easy to learn, what'll probably take a bit of adjustment is the mindset you need to approach matches with. Your opponents team isn't going to be presented to you on a plate like in Wifi, so you have to be thinking about logical choices for your opponents Pokemon. If they show you a Dusclops, for example, you can be pretty damn confident they have a Spiker somewhere.

The other main difference is that Adv requires both a good degree of long and short term thinking. You need to be analysing your opponents next move whilst figuring out the best strategy to remove their greatest threat over the course of the match (It's pretty hard to counterteam in Adv, so while they likely wont pose a huge immediate threat, over the course of the battle you will be gradually worn down and cleaned if you dont have a method to work around it). A lot of Adv play is finding loops in the match and attempting to exploit them to the greatest detriment to your opponent. It looks stally on the surface, but what it really is is the erosion of counters and abusing stall loops to gain an offensive advantage. Every little smidgeon of ground you gain or lose can decide battle.

I'll probably post a guide relating to metagame specifics at some point, but if anyone has questions in the meantime...ask :p

As for teams, I might post a team that's been going more than solidly for me recently, however I don't want to see it posted anywhere outside these forums. Its pretty damn effective and I do kind of want to keep it exclusive. Kind of.

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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 18th 2012, 7:24 pm

Hey Falcon Thanks for Coming! So i've been trying as you know but Can't really seem to find any sort of offense In ADV. Either Its DDmence or Curselax. Can you Name some good sweepers/Offensive/glass cannon pokemon
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TM1337FalconPunch
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 30th 2012, 10:00 am

Nexus wrote:
Hey Falcon Thanks for Coming! So i've been trying as you know but Can't really seem to find any sort of offense In ADV. Either Its DDmence or Curselax. Can you Name some good sweepers/Offensive/glass cannon pokemon
The best offensive pokemon are either multidimensional or just really good at beating their counters. Tyranitar fills both of those requirements- it has so many offensive options available to it and all of them are more than useable, that there is no one pokemon that can solidly counter Tyranitar at all. Flygon is about the closest you'll get, because Ice Beam TTar is pretty rare atm. Gengar also poses problems from multiple angles- from being a stallbreaker, perish trapper, straight up attacker, status spreading, then with stuff like Taunt, Destiny Bond, Counter, Explosion- all surprise offensive options it can carry. Not to mention its the main spinblocker of choice in this metagame, and Gengar looooooooooves Spikes.

Then you have your things like Curselax, DDMence, CMCune, CMCelebi- these things get more dangerous over time, since counters get worn down and stuff. CMCune does things slightly different in that it stalls its counters out before proceeding to steamroller them- while its boring and stally and not "typically" offensive, its pretty effective and presents a different problem than that posed by other set up sweepers.

And finally, there are the things that make you shit bricks when you see them. Heracross, Raikou, Jynx, Alakazam, Medicham, Slaking, Smeargle- these things need one turn to fuck your life up and need to keep your head when dealing with them.

I'm struggling to understand how you find it offenseless though. Everything I've mentioned here is relatively common, with the exception of Jynx/Smeargle.
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 30th 2012, 8:58 pm

Tyranitar is usually to slow to move and it gets bogged down easily. There are so many Swamperts and Dugtrio's around not to mention Heracross'.
Gengar is a good Choice but What is its best moveset?
Curselax should run shadowball? If so what are its counters except skarm and what pokemon tema up with it well?
DDmence meant for late game? because early game swampert,Skarmory usually shut it down.
SubCM cune is beast, I concur.
CM celebi, how does it work as never seen one?
Whats Hera's usual Role/Moveset?

Sorry for asking too many questions
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 31st 2012, 12:20 am

Nexus wrote:
Tyranitar is usually to slow to move and it gets bogged down easily. There are so many Swamperts and Dugtrio's around not to mention Heracross'.
Gengar is a good Choice but What is its best moveset?
Curselax should run shadowball? If so what are its counters except skarm and what pokemon tema up with it well?
DDmence meant for late game? because early game swampert,Skarmory usually shut it down.
SubCM cune is beast, I concur.
CM celebi, how does it work as never seen one?
Whats Hera's usual Role/Moveset?

Sorry for asking too many questions
Tyranitar is one of the three biggest threats in ADV (alongside Celebi and Gengar). Swampert gets beaten by HP Grass variants and general wear and tear, and Dugtrio is hardly a counter when it can't switch in at all. Dugtrio just revenge kills,and only if Tar has only +1 Speed, is slightly wounded, and is not behind a Sub. DDTar is the most immediately threatening set up sweeper you'll see, alongside SDHeracross. Heracross doesn't like taking +1 Rock Slides too much, so with prior damage, Heracross can't beat DDTar, and CB variants can be worn down by sandstorm and Spikes. Oh, and if TTar has Fire Blast, all it takes is one blind prediction and gg Heracross. Its not unstoppable, but its far, FAR better than you're making it to be.

The whole thing about Gengar is that there is no "best" moveset. Its got a billion options to fuck you over with. Ice Punch and Tbolt are pretty much standard, but even then, you can still deviate. I'm fairly confident you can just pick 4 decent moves and it'd still work. To list all the useable things- Counter, Destiny Bond, Explosion, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Haze, Hypnosis, Ice Punch, Mean Look, Perish Song, Snatch, Substitute, Taunt, Thunderbolt, Toxic, Will-o-wisp. For ADV, thats a pretty dynamic movepool. Pick 4 and go.

Curselax should run Shadow Ball unless you have something like PursuitTar or Houndoom. Any defensively EVed Celebi with Leech Seed (which is most of them) is a pretty solid answer to Curselax, as are T-Tar, Jirachi and Metagross most of the time. Forretress is a temporary solution. Obviously, EQ variants are walled by Gengar, and still cant beat Skarm.

DDMence will never sweep in the early game, but you should be bringing it in to wear down its counters regardless. You'll never get past Milotic without a crit, but stuff like Cloyster, Swampert, Claydol and friends can all be eroded and then consequently set up on. Skarm/Forry shouldnt be a threat because you should be running Fire Blast or a Magneton.

I was talking more about CMRunner Cune than SubCM. The runner has more long game value, whereas SubCune has surprise value.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Grass]/[Fire]/Leech Seed/Baton Pass

Common as muck Celebi set, I'm surprised you havent seen it.

Heracross is either Banded or SD, or the rare Reversal set (but Tyranitar says no). Personally, I find Choice Band overrated, Hera hits like a truck anyway, and seems to me to be much more threatening when it can set up. 295 Speed is pretty fast in this metagame, and nothing else in the game has a good physical 120 STAB to go with a sexy base 125 attack AND Swords Dance. Oh and Guts. Lovely Guts. Machamp can go cry in a corner. In a Psychic heavy metagame, Fighting types need to do something special.

Also, special mention for the bulk up/sleep talk set, that thing kept me amused for ages :3
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 31st 2012, 10:17 am

But what does Counter useful for? (Except the Defensive Gengar set that you posted) Can it take hits? What is Haze and Snatch for?( Any specific Pokemon?) Is Gengar Bulky Enough to run those moves?

Sorry But Whats CM runner cune? You mean Crocune?

Thanks for answering
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 31st 2012, 10:57 am

Nexus wrote:
But what does Counter useful for? (Except the Defensive Gengar set that you posted) Can it take hits? What is Haze and Snatch for?( Any specific Pokemon?) Is Gengar Bulky Enough to run those moves?


Sorry But Whats CM runner cune? You mean Crocune?

Thanks for answering
Even with lesser defensive investment, I'm pretty sure you can live Aerodactyl Rock Slides and the like. It can't take hits amazingly well, but its always an option and Gengar works best on surprise value. Haze can mess with a Suicune once in a while, but its only barely useable. Snatch, however, is a totally legit option if you can predict. Toxic/WoW a Blissey and begin Snatching its Heal Bells/Softboileds, or if you think a pesky Jolteon is gonna set a Sub up in your face, take it for yourself, or if you're really brave, try and steal a Celebi's Calm Mind. Its certainly risky, but I've pulled it off before and its just plain funny to watch as your opponent struggles to handle it when they can't recover or anything.

CMRunner is with Roar. Calm Mind/Roar/Surf/Rest
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   May 31st 2012, 8:54 pm

Oh I see. Nice Smile Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 23rd 2012, 6:38 am

I play Adv (cartridge) but as Falcon said, teams aren't going to be presented on a plate like Wifi and I need a little help with that... I always refer to the wifi list of pokemon in order to predict.


Last edited by Nexus on June 23rd 2012, 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 26th 2012, 10:01 am

sorelia wrote:
I play Adv (cartridge) but as Falcon said, teams aren't going to be presented on a plate like Wifi and I need a little help with that... I always refer to the wifi list of pokemon in order to predict.

You need to think about what counters your current mon and assume they have it, and make your initial moves based on those assumptions. Got a Skarm? Whirlwind, don't Spike. If they have a Magneton you'll gain some very valuable information (especially if you have a Dugtrio). Same goes for Forry- EQ, don't Spike (unless you're a HP Bug variant). Using a MixLax? Catch the bait Skarm with a Fire Blast as it comes in, don't wait for them to force it out of you. If they don't have Skarm, then you've not really lost much, since their answer is probably TTar or Jirachi, which you wouldn't beat without EQ anyway. A good early tempo in an Adv game will help you a lot.

Oh, and don't ever lead with Forry/ Skarm. Not clever. If you want to lead a Spiker, use Cloy. He won't get trapped on turn 2 by Magneton, see.
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 27th 2012, 5:26 am

It's Strange that whenever I Whirlwind with Skarm my opponents Magneton Comes in :/
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 27th 2012, 11:23 am

Do you mean they show the Magneton and it gets phazed, or they don't show it and you end up Phazing it in? If its the latter, then immediately switching out Skarm is an alternative, but then you run the risk of making a bad double switch, which is also bad. No method is risk free, but on the whole phazing is best, since it gives you early game information.

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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 28th 2012, 6:33 pm

True about that. I've also seen M Dragon using Growth Baton pass Jolteon/Vaporeon Core to sweeper in GSC. I did try it and it's not too bad. Comments?


Last edited by Nexus on June 29th 2012, 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 28th 2012, 11:33 pm

Nexus wrote:
True about that. I've also seen M Dragon using Growth Baton pass Jolteon/Vaporeon Core to sweeper. I did try it and it's not too bad. Comments?
You sure thats Adv and not GSC? I'm pretty positive they can't get Growth in Adv, or we'd see it a lot more.
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PostSubject: Re: Gauging Adv Experience/Interest   June 29th 2012, 8:48 am

Sorry yer its GSC.
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